PWP and color profiles

[Bernard]

PWP still does not recognize the color profile of jpg files coming straight out of a Nikon camera (D600) .
It says 'profile none'.
Nikon probably does not embed the profile itself, just a tag, but other softwares are able to decode it.
Why not PWP ?

Bernard

[Dieter Mayr]

If my memory serves me correct there are some problems with a standard for writing the profiles name in the EXIF.
Something like sRGB is defined, but AdobeRGB is not, so it would be just indicated as "not SRGB" which can be theoretically every other Colorspace, too.
Excuse please if it's not 100% correct, but I had a long day.
A while ago i have heard a nice analogy i took to heart when it comes to profiles and files.
"A flie without the embedded profile is like a can of food thats label has fallen off, you never know for sure whats in it".
So, with that analogy it would be a can with fallen off label, and written with a felt marker "not ananas" It may be peaches, but could be meet, too.
In my personal workflow I emebd the correct profile in every single file i download from camera, so i can be sure its always known what it is.
You may use PWP to download your files directly and apply a Workflow that embeds the profile.
I download the files not within PWP, but i run then a Workflow to embed the correct profile.

Hope it helps

[Bernard]

What you say is true.
However, many softwares are able to decode the tag, for example Lightroom or the well known Phil Harvey's ExifTool library.
Yes, it's possible to embed the profile 'manually', with a worflow or another software, but it would be convenient if PWP was able to do it directly.
Bernard

[Dieter Mayr]

I agree with you 100% that it would be convenient to get it automatically done, but thats all and alone in Jonathan's and Kiril's hands.
All we can do is arguing and hope that we get it one day ;)



PS:
Not that some one gets it wrong:
Jonathan and Kiril do a great work and it's amazing how many good ideas that came from us users found their way in the product over all the years I work already with PWP.
There could be always more, of course, and some ideas are also divergent, but I guess your day has also just 24 hours as mine has.
A big THANK YOU for listening to us!

[mjdl]

I thought the imaging libraries that PWP uses would automatically recognize the usual EXIF/DCF tags for ColorSpace that are embedded in the JPEG metadata by most cameras, e.g. from exiv2.org/tags.html the ColorSpace tag is described as:

The color space information tag is always recorded as the color space specifier. Normally sRGB is used to define the color space based on the PC monitor conditions and environment. If a color space other than sRGB is used, Uncalibrated is set. Image data recorded as Uncalibrated can be treated as sRGB when it is converted to FlashPix. (Tag Number= 0xa001 (40961) IFD=Photo Tag Key=Exif.Photo.ColorSpace Tag Type=Short)

I.E. exactly what Dieter Mayr has already alluded to with the sRGB/not-sRGB interpretation of the values of this tag. I'd really be astonished if any Nikon camera didn't put the standard sRGB value of that tag in its JPEGs when the camera is set to produce sRGB JPEGs... are you sure you have the relevant camera JPEG setting correct?

For camera JPEGs, I have PWP set up with the sRGB working color space and to signal me when there's a color profile mismatch: PWP seems to accept the EXIF/DCF "ColorSpace" tag value of sRGB as a legitimate color profile, so there are mismatches only if a JPEG has been stripped of that tag (perhaps by some other editing software), or the tag has been set to some other value (although I don't think I've ever run into that scenario).

P.S. Just found this link in my bookmarks, a good overview of "What is embedded color profile information?"

[Bernard]

... are you sure you have the relevant camera JPEG setting correct?

Yes I am sure.
The Nikon D600 has only 2 possible values, and I tried both SRGB and AdobeRGB, and opened the Jpegs directly in PWP without any processing.
For the same images, both color spaces were recognised by the softwares I mentioned above.
Bernard

[tomczak]

The way I understand it is that cameras tag RAW or JPG files with EXIF tags: ColorSpace (with values of sRGB or Uncalibrated) and Interopindex (I'm to sure what it does), but they don't embed an ICC profile (which can be unrelated and is independent from EXIF tags above). PWP ignores the ICC colour space tags, as they don't reliably identify the colour profile, but reads and complies with the embedded ICC profile, if there is one (straight from the camera, there is typically none). I think this is logical, since if you change the ICC profile, you're not touching the EXIF tags (so for instance if I take a image from the camera and tag it or change is to a e.g. BruceRGB, the embedded ICC profile will become BruceRGB (and the file actually contains this profile data which allows it to display correctly), but the EXIF:ColourSpace, which can only take two values, remains what it was (it's just a tag and contains no colour profile data).

One practical way of tagging the images straight from the camera (which have no ICC profile attached, but may have some tags, such as ColorSpace, which indicate what ICC profile should be attached to it), is to use EXIFToolGUI to batch process them and attach the correct profile based on EXIF tag (in v. 4.26 that was in Export/Modify --> Import ICC/ICM profile --> where EXIF:ColorSpace=sRGB (or Uncalibrated) - this allows to conditionally attach sRGB/AdobeRGB actual ICC profiles based on the EXIF:ColorSpace tag supplied by the camera.

Recently, I don't bother with it, since I set the camera JPGs to a common colour space (e.g. sRGB), so I know that all the JPGs (individual images and those embedded in RAW) are in the same colour space, and I use assumed colour profile in PWP colour management to embed this ICC to every image I open in PWP. Also, with RAW that makes no difference I think, since they don't really have a profile until I develop them.

[mjdl]

Embedded information should have priority over exif information, but the problem here may be PWP Not recognizing the exif information.

[ksinkel]

I hope everyone is aware that there are two default color space settings -- one for image files and the second for scanned images. These profiles are applied to images that do not have an embedded profile. You can set them under File/Color Management.

Kiril