Is there a way to invert the tones of a black and white image (similar to inverting a mask) without first converting it into an 8 bit black and white (mask) image.
I am primarily concerned about the degradation in quality in tones by going into 8 bit B and W and back again (as opposed to just 16 bit B and W to 48 bit colour).
I am experimenting on Color > Negative on some black and white images and wish to invert the tones on some without having to, first, convert to an 8 bit B and W mask, invert the tones, then convert to 48 bit colour (because, of course, Color > Negative only works on colour images).
Thanks,
Marv
Inverting Tones in a B and W image
Moderator: jsachs
Re: Inverting Tones in a B and W image
Transformation/Gray/Negative
Jonathan Sachs
Digital Light & Color
Digital Light & Color
Re: Inverting Tones in a B and W image
In version PWP 64 v7.0.20, I see Transformation/Gray/Negative. Is there a reason why masks won't work with this transformation?
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Dieter Mayr
- Posts: 453
- Joined: April 24th, 2009, 11:47 am
- What is the make/model of your primary camera?: Nikon D700
- Location: Salzburg / Austria
Re: Inverting Tones in a B and W image
Marv,
You can always convert a 16 bit Black and white image to a 48 bit colour image without degredation of quality.
The colour image just takes 3 times the space im memory, in a 16 bit BW image every pixel is represented as just one value, in a 48 bit image with 3 identical values for R, G and B.
I always use 48 bit colour for BW images, basically there is no other way to print them in a colour managed workflow in PWP as PWP does not support BW icc profiles.
Form your last post I suppose you want to use a mask when performing the transformation for inverting the tones?
There are many ways, you can use the Color/Negative transformation after converting to 48 bit colour as described above and use Color/Negative, or you can use Brighness Curve, a linear curve from 0/100 to 100/0 will invert the tones as well, and you can use a mask. And there are probably other ways I did not think of right now.
I suppose Grey/Negative was primarily designed to convert scanned BW negatives, so it would not be neccesary to include a mask, on the other had there is a mask available in Color/Negative. Probably Grey/Negative has no mask ability because it does not have a Transformation window to make any settings, and as there are other ways to achieve the goal Jonathan didn't bother to include a extra window just for a mask.
You can always convert a 16 bit Black and white image to a 48 bit colour image without degredation of quality.
The colour image just takes 3 times the space im memory, in a 16 bit BW image every pixel is represented as just one value, in a 48 bit image with 3 identical values for R, G and B.
I always use 48 bit colour for BW images, basically there is no other way to print them in a colour managed workflow in PWP as PWP does not support BW icc profiles.
Form your last post I suppose you want to use a mask when performing the transformation for inverting the tones?
There are many ways, you can use the Color/Negative transformation after converting to 48 bit colour as described above and use Color/Negative, or you can use Brighness Curve, a linear curve from 0/100 to 100/0 will invert the tones as well, and you can use a mask. And there are probably other ways I did not think of right now.
I suppose Grey/Negative was primarily designed to convert scanned BW negatives, so it would not be neccesary to include a mask, on the other had there is a mask available in Color/Negative. Probably Grey/Negative has no mask ability because it does not have a Transformation window to make any settings, and as there are other ways to achieve the goal Jonathan didn't bother to include a extra window just for a mask.
Dieter Mayr
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Marpel
- Posts: 702
- Joined: September 13th, 2009, 3:19 pm
- What is the make/model of your primary camera?: Nikon D810
- Location: Port Coquitlam, British Columbia
Re: Inverting Tones in a B and W image
Jonathan,
Thanks for the info. Didn't even know Grey had a Negative as well.
Dieter,
Actually, I wasn't using a mask (at least as a mask) when inverting the tones. But, as I did not realize that there was Grey > Negative to invert, I was converting an image to 8 bit so I could then invert it (as when inverting a mask). I then converted the inverted image back to 48 bit colour. Now that I know there is Grey > Negative, I can just invert a 48 bit black and white image straight across. What I have been playing with is doing a diptych where one side is a positive image (after doing Color > Negative of the black and white - with some slider movements, the result can be a pleasing sepia-like image) while the other side is the reversed tone (sepia) image. To accomplish that, one image has to be the inverse of the other.
Marv
Thanks for the info. Didn't even know Grey had a Negative as well.
Dieter,
Actually, I wasn't using a mask (at least as a mask) when inverting the tones. But, as I did not realize that there was Grey > Negative to invert, I was converting an image to 8 bit so I could then invert it (as when inverting a mask). I then converted the inverted image back to 48 bit colour. Now that I know there is Grey > Negative, I can just invert a 48 bit black and white image straight across. What I have been playing with is doing a diptych where one side is a positive image (after doing Color > Negative of the black and white - with some slider movements, the result can be a pleasing sepia-like image) while the other side is the reversed tone (sepia) image. To accomplish that, one image has to be the inverse of the other.
Marv